Foreword- A massive interview between two entertainment titans. This is without a doubt the most difficult single translation I’ve ever worked on. It was a struggle to get every last nuance nailed down with an appropriate English equivalent. My wife has, as always, been a huge help and a coworker, “Mr. I”, who happens to be a huge One Piece fan and Classical Japanese teacher helped me with one of the more difficult to understand bits about halfway through. And big thanks to freedom and dirt monkey AL of Arlong Park Forums who helped me format this properly. Outside of the Color Walks this is one of few interviews that dives directly into the molten core of ‘The Oda’. Enjoy!

-Greg

Introduction

The conference room of the motion picture company. Against the white backdrop assembled for the photo shoot there lays a desk between Kazutoshi Sakurai and Eiichiro Oda as they chat relaxed. Comics and music, two genre that are very different, but for two men that have long helped carry the tides of Japanese entertainment, today is their very first meeting. And now, having worked jointly on this effort, one might find it hard to believe that they’ve never worked together before, and yet, more than just a chance encounter, theirs was a meeting that was only a matter of time; and that should come as no surprise to the readers of One Piece or Mr. Children’s listeners, for their art itself seems to have brought forth such a collaboration.

The site of their encounter, ‘One Piece Film Strong World’.  It’s a first for the 10^th film to have the original creator, Oda himself, writing the story as Executive Producer with the main theme song provided by Mr. Children. Up until now, many of the One Piece movies have been standalone original tales but now the story Eiichiro Oda has written is set to connect with the original work. Oda has put his heart and soul into this project, even leaving some gaps in the weekly serialization across the film’s two and a half years of production. At the start of their talk, when inquiring about the progress of their collaboration, Oda recalled the revealing stories of just how eager he really was.

Int: Oda-san, you personally offered the main theme to Mr. Children, but could you tell us how that came to be?

O: Normally I wouldn’t want to work on anything other than the comic. I can’t make something I’m satisfied with unless I’m concentrating on one thing at a time, it’s just how I am. So when they first came to me asking, “We’d like you to write just a bit of the plot for the 10^th movie.”, I completely refused but since I was asked by someone who has taken good care of me in the past, I wound up accepting. But, just before they broke me I said, “Well, okay, if you can get Mr. Children to do the main theme then I might just take this seriously.” Of course I knew that it might not have worked out that way at all.

Int: So that was the condition for you to accept, correct?

O: I took on this film project when things were running down to the wire and I wasn’t sure how it would turn out, I just knew it was something I had to do. So I kept telling myself, “Mr. Children is gonna sing for you.”, and I wrote the plot. (laughs)

Int: Sakurai-san, could you tell us how you felt upon receiving such an offer from Oda-san?

S: It was something I definitely wanted to do. Back when I didn’t know what One Piece was, my daughter said she wanted to go see a One Piece movie so we went to see it on a father-daughter date. I really enjoyed it. That and Mr. Children’s drummer Suzuki (Hideya) and  bassist Nakagawa (Keisuke) are both really into One Piece. So because of those kinds of things I wanted to do it, and also because I thought it was a chance for personal growth as well.

Int: Oda-san, I’ve heard that you sent a letter to Sakurai-san, but could you tell us about the contents of the letter?

O: That’d be the letter I sent after they agreed to sing the main theme. I thought it was just our job to ensure the song they let us use would at least somehow be tied to One Piece’s image; on our end we would make sure the images matched the song and we’d be set. But then I was blown away when Sakurai-san actually asked me what kind of song would be best. So, in the letter, I approached the topic with this ‘I’m only asking you because you asked me first’-humility and explained the concept of my vision of a fun movie based primarily on a boys’ comic. Well, that and, “Since you asked, could you please make sure it’s a really cool song too.” (laughs) “One Piece has different kinds of scenes, and everyone comes away with something different so I’m leaving it up to you to take what you like from it because I don’t want to tell a professional how to do his job.”, that’s what I tried to express in the letter as a response to what was asked of me.

S: I brought the letter with me today. (laughs)

O: Come on now, it’s not like I wrote anything special.

“We realize it’s a personal letter but would you be willing to share it with us?”, after we asked Sakurai, with Oda’s permission, he took out the letter contained in an envelope upon which was handwritten in bold design ‘Sakurai Kazutoshi-sama’. The contents, two pages of stationary packed with his [Oda’s] thoughts on the film. At only a glance it was easy to tell just how much Oda respects Mr. Children.

O: When I heard that Sakurai-san actually asked, “What kind of song would you like?”, it was like I had a first-hand experience with the kind of confidence Mr. Children carries.

Int: Confidence?

O: It’s like he was telling me it would be ‘okay’ because no matter how much they adjust their work to fit someone else’s wishes, it wouldn’t lose their touch. The whole time I was thinking it was our job to make the images match [the music] but when he asked me like that it means they have a level of confidence where they can go anywhere and never lose the music that makes them Mr. Children, that was impressive.

S: I think it might be the opposite actually, personally I don’t feel that Mr. Children is some firmly established entity.  Becoming music and moving people, stirring their hearts, that’s when Mr. Children becomes complete, so if it’s possible for us as, Mr. Children, we’d like to embrace the message and meaning of the film and to stir people from their core; just to get even a little closer to accomplishing that is why I wanted to know what the film was about.

We’ve done the main theme for a number of films now but first I always try to understand what the film is trying to say, however, if you put that message directly into a song you’re not really extending your boundaries so we try looking at messages from completely different perspectives or attempt to sing from a slightly different angle while ultimately keeping the same message… That’s just always how we try to make our music; so I went through our staff to ask and we received the letter which read, “Generally speaking I’m going for a ‘cool movie’ so please don’t think it has to be from the, ‘a good movie means a tear-jerker’ line of thought.” I was riding the bullet train on tour when a staff member handed me the letter and the instant I read ‘cool movie’ I heard that guitar riff ringing in my head.

O: Wow! You’re just that good… 

S: Also the high tension yelling at the beginning was [the result of] thinking about the scenes where Luffy shouts out, and I put them to a melody in my head. After that the rest was really just a matter of having fun finding a slick way to tie all the exciting characters of the film together, I thought that would work best.

O: We just made a promo video with the main theme and I’m impressed how well Luffy’s shouting fits the chorus. It was kind of a mystery to me how you made the song and I came here today ready to ask how you did it. I can’t believe that right after reading the letter you conjured up an image just like that.

S: It was the letter that brought forth this song so I’m very thankful for it. I don’t think it’s something I could have come up with on my own.

O: I wrote about everything that happened surrounding the movie including my own mental state regarding the film and how that changed. I also [wrote out] the entire course that led me to finally decide on ‘excitement’ for the theme. Everything I thought about the movie. I deliberated over making ‘emotion’ [the theme]. People all over the world are always make a big deal about, ‘dramatic this’ and ‘emotional that’ right? It’s almost to the point where people think, “This can’t be a good movie unless I come out bawling.”; eventually I realized there was this rising trend and was frustrated with myself for trying to conform to it. Because when my name was first attached to it, I thought I should produce exactly what everyone expected me to make and I prepared this sort of touching story. [The movie I wrote at first was] ‘The Crystal Ship’s Log’, a piece with an entirely different title but, to tell the truth, when writing the comic, a dramatic story, or rather, aiming for one from the start, which is to say, writing for the purpose of provoking a dramatic emotional reaction from readers, that’s something I will not do. When the characters start moving I’ll give them a hand and add some direction which can lead to an emotional story, but I’ve never once actually thought about writing just for it to be a touching tale. Since that was something I wouldn’t [normally] even entertain to begin with, I started to regret what I was doing. I think it would have actually been a solid piece of work if I had just left it as it was. But I got the feeling there was something about it that was at odds with my personal policy.

There’s another trend, “People dying, now that’s we call ‘drama’.” I’d call it a ‘funeral’. [In that respect] It doesn’t seem to make [the so-called trend], “If you cry then it’s worth it.”, seem right. If I try thinking back on my top five favorite movies, not one of them is a drama. I like cool movies and I’m a boys’ comic artist so I thought I should focus on boys and draw exactly the kind of things they’d like. So I considered changing the theme to excitement. We had all the staff gathered at this meeting for the, “It’s too long, what should we cut?”, stage of editing after most of ‘The Crystal Ship’s Log’ had been completed and I just said, “I don’t think I can do this.” And that’s how the release date got pushed back.

Int: So that’s why as each trailer was unveiled the release date kept getting pushed back.

O: You see, even before that point I was already causing a lot of trouble for everyone. But I knew if I wanted to turn in something that I was satisfied with and actually enjoyed writing, [The Crystal Ship’s Log] would have been a lie. Up to that point I held back a bit because of JUMP. I think maybe because I took the project too lightly I wasn’t willing to neglect my main job and spend any extra effort [on the movie]. But then, having set my heart on making a ‘boy’s comic movie’ I finally immersed myself in the project to the point where JUMP’s main editor actually told me, “Mind doing a little work on this end too?” That’s how it has to be for me to create something, but really, when I switched to ‘Strong World’ I just kept pushing forward and pulled up feelings of excitement from way back, the things that boys are really into and packed all the stuff I loved as a kid [into the story]. That’s why I really hope you [Sakurai-san] enjoy looking forward to it… That’s what I explained to Sakurai-san in the letter.

S: When I read that and understood what you meant by a ‘cool movie’ I was like, “I’m totally onboard for this!” I switched my brain into gear on the spot.

Inspired by the letter, Sakurai wrote the main theme which he called ‘fanfare’. Carried along by a guitar riff with verve and Sakurai [himself] who is even more emotional than usual, the melody is constantly developing, majestic and even aggressive as a piece that is aptly fit to the start of an adventure, a blessing for the first step of a journey. “I wanted to make some exciting and intense music.”, Sakurai said as he’s switched into an even higher gear since his album ‘Supermarket Fantasy’; this [particular song] being the personification of rock music’s intense feelings condensed into a single piece, even the lyrics are scattered with keywords like ‘anchor’, ‘navigation’, ‘treasure’, ‘the deep’ and ‘sail‘ all linking it to the world of One Piece.

S: It seems that when there’s an aspect of society that’s unstable, words that have deep meaning and stories that are easy to understand tend to have more value than just the sensation of excitement and that’s probably true for the world of film just as much as it is for music, but especially for the implication of words in music; I think there was a period up until just recently where sincerity [in ‘meaning’] was front and center. I started to vaguely feel that and worried about what direction Mr. Children should face but just as I found myself lost for an answer this link was established and I thought, “Whoa, that’s it. I should probably put a little more faith in ‘emotion’ to face projects.” And that’s something I’m working on even now for making my latest songs. Exactly why we feel the rush of a thrill or why our hearts can pound with excitement, it’s something so important, so huge, that it can’t just be explained in words. Music is an amazing tool, because even before [you listen to] the words or the story, music allows you to experience those feelings of excitement. That’s why I went back one more time and reevaluated what music is and from here on I’d like to believe it has a power beyond words. That letter I received [from Oda-san] was probably the spark that got me thinking along those lines [in addition to helping me write the song].

O: Music echoes with so many people. There are a lot of individuals in [the business of] ‘creation’ that listen to music, in fact I’m one of them; for example with One Piece one of the things I’ll do is make a play-list that fits the arc and listen to that music continually as I draw the arc, there are all kinds of ways I’m influenced by music. That means unless you’re able to see where the times are heading, you’re not cut out to be a musician, and what’s more is, musicians can’t listen to music to create [new] music. If that were the case then how can those new phrases and melodies be conceived, I’d love to know what mechanism [makes that possible]. Because earlier you mentioned something about ‘ringing’ right Sakurai-san?

S: Yes. It might be a quantity of feelings or maybe something welling up in one’s heart but in my case those things turn to music. I imagine for you Oda-san, they become pictures. If I tried to prepare beforehand by having an image of myself wanting to write a particular kind of song in advance, I’d end up making something that bores me. That’s why I try to keep my mind free.

Int: Oda-san, in what form did you first encounter Mr. Children’s music?

O: Boy, you’re talking about Mr. Children, for my generation they’re a group everyone listened to. I’m from an age group, right in the middle of it actually, that’s always following Mr. Children. I mean ever since ‘CROSSROAD’ was a huge hit when I was in high school. This is a little off-topic but when Mr. Children took off in popularity and became a hot topic, I could only see one trend in the world of music; lots of different people made two or three hits, put all of them on an album and that was the end of them, that trend continued for the longest time. I thought, “Why don’t they just hold back one [of the hits so they can sell more]?” Just thinking about it so negatively. (laughs) And then the Mr. Children boom really caught fast and, if I remember correctly, the first album was ‘Atomic Heart’ (‘94).

S: Yes, it was ‘Atomic Heart’.

O: ‘Tomorrow never knows’ was missing from that wasn’t it?

S: Oh, ‘Tomorrow never knows’ was on a later album. (1997’s BOLERO)

O: [At the time] I thought some really sneaky guys had appeared on the scene. (laughs)

S: Hahahahaha (laughing)

O: Really I thought, “These guys are definitely gonna stick around.” That was a smart move.

S: But the truth is we made ‘Tomorrow never knows’ while the album was in production and completed it right after the album was finished, that’s why it wasn’t included.

Oda: I thought that was some kind of strategic move. (laughs) I was like, “These guys are shrewd!” But I was happy too. I loved you guys so I knew that meant I could continue to listen to you for a long time.

Int: At one point, in JUMP’s author’s comment corner, Oda-san, you praised the lyrics of [songs from the album] ‘I *heart* U’.

O: Right, Sakurai-san’s lyrics are so beyond sincere that sometimes they shock me. The one that hit me the hardest, do you remember the lyrics to ‘Running High’?

S: Sure.

O: When I heard that song I thought to myself, “Sakurai-san, you can’t just say something like that.”

S: (laughs)

O: The lyrics I’m talking about are, and I don’t know if this is on the mark, they were, “Even though I’m carrying a heavy ‘burden’, I’m [doing it] alone, and none of you understand this ‘weight’.” I think what you were trying to say in song was, “Shut up, amateurs.” (laughs) I thought, “Wow, to speak out like that as a man of his standing, that’s really cool.” Since everyone’s got a different job and we carry different kinds of ‘burdens’, I think that song saved a lot of people, because actually it saved me. I decided that even if there were a lot of things people didn’t understand about me, I’d do my best. It helped me think that even if I was a laughingstock, I’d keep going. It’s really amazing. I think it’s generally the same with your other songs as well, when you listen to the lyrics, it’s as if we can understand your [private] life. Don’t you think you’re just a little too honest?

S: I don’t know. I think to myself, “This part is just made up.”, and “This is real.” However, I deliberately choose words that hide that distinction. Also, I think Mr. Children is a very successful band but when you ask someone if they’re happy because they have success, they probably aren’t. That’s why I present myself facing the troubles of my own life, seemingly with all this success, as I show how demanding it is and along with the listeners, I want to live in the moment, that’s more or less how I feel.

O: Yeah, I think you really show it too. That’s why I like [Mr. Children] so much.

Int: Regarding One Piece, are there any [similar] instances where you reveal yourself through drawing?

O: While I might say, “I’m writing everyone’s dreams.”, I think I’m actually writing, ‘my dreams’. So in that sense those impulses of mine are revealed. But even if I exposed my private life, there’s no way I could reflect that in my characters. I think what makes comics so interesting are their ‘overboard’ nature, and there’s no way I lead that kind of crazy life (laughs), it wouldn’t even be worth trying to base it on me. My job is to recreate things for everyone that come from our imagination, things that I think people would like to be able to do, “If this or that happened I’d be so happy.”, or, “I’d love to be to do that.”, those kinds of things. It’s enough if it just helps everyone relax.

S: Is there anything about the term ‘camaraderie’ that you feel is special?

O: To be perfectly honest, at the time I began serialization, ‘camaraderie’ as a theme was something very new. Now they’re a dime a dozen but back at the start there weren’t any compositions that used camaraderie as a theme, a style of picking up different main-level-characters, I started with a completely new approach. But I think ‘camaraderie’ is very important in real life.

Int: So the both of you enjoy soccer?

S: Oh, you like soccer?

O: I was on the soccer team [in school].

S: Is that so. (laughs)

O: But I don’t follow it much anymore.

Int: Do you think the ‘team’ characteristics of soccer might have found their way into your work?

O: Yeah I think so. Maybe there was some bigger reason why I didn’t go for baseball.

Int: For both of you, when you were children was there any comic or animation that influenced or left a big impression on you? For example, Sakurai-san, were there any works you experienced while they were in their original run?

S: I was a kid who never read anything. I didn’t read comics and certainly not books (laughs). But there was a cartoon that I really liked, ‘Ban Banjou’.

O: ‘Samurai Giants’. Baseball right, and yet.

S: That’s right. (laughs) I only got into soccer after I grew up.

O: Oh really? I’m from what you might call soccer’s golden age.

S: Tsubasa-kun?

O: You bet. I started soccer in fifth grade but Captain Tsubasa was popular when I was in fourth. Everyone my age wanted to join the school soccer club in fifth grade. It was so abrupt, there was this massive increase of club members that year. That was what got me to join.

S: How long did you play?

O: Until my first year of high school, I quit telling the coach, “I’m going to focus on studying from now on.”, and proceeded to draw comics (laughs).

S: Wow.

O: But at this point, sports are something I literally cannot even attempt. I’m always sitting down for work so I can’t even run now, seriously.

S: Yeah I imagine. Do you do any other kind of exercise?

O: Not at all. I mean I want to, there are times I really just want to get my body moving but there’s nothing I can do about it.

S: Does sitting down all the time hurt your hips [or back]?

O: Yeah I do get a lot of lower back pain, but I manage, with some help of the chiropractic variety. (laughs) Do you play soccer?

S: I played before coming here today. It’s a lot of fun.

O: I bet it is. Just playing soccer means you’ve gotta have a lot of stamina.

S: That’s true.

O: Because you’re constantly running in that sport… What’s your position?

S: I’m a Forward. It’s not like I’m good or anything, everyone around me is really good so they let me play there. But they can really get angry at me. Some of the people there are former J-Leaguers so you know. Once you reach my age, most people don’t talk down to you right? Having someone chew you out is actually a pretty good stimulus. (laughs)

O: Yeah because you put aside things like personal standing during matches. Even back in [soccer] club there was this strange rule where it was like, “You can call upper classmen by their first names.”

Int: During the photo shoot earlier you were speaking about your children and as entertainers I believe you have a number of opportunities to come in contact with children but is attempting to express [ideas] to children something you’re mindful of?

O: Well, I have a daughter. So I can’t really use her for research. (laughs) I write a boys’ comic but of course my daughter likes girl-things and that dismays me. There’s the torment of buying ‘Pretty Cure’ for her (laughs), things like that. I’m the worst offender since I learned how to draw those kinds of pictures just for her. (laughs)

S: When you draw, do you try to keep a vague idea of the age of your readers?

O: I think middle-schoolers are the core readers that could enjoy it the most. Of course when I was in elementary school I read comics but I realized later that I didn’t really understand any of it. So there are probably a lot of points that don’t get across to elementary schoolers. But, on the surface, you’ve got Luffy whose body can stretch and similar strange elements and they enjoy the images they see. As they reach middle school, they can slowly grasp the story and when they get even older they can start to see the themes. Every age group has a different way of reading the story but personally I’ve set the target age at fifteen. Every week I determine whether or not my fifteen-year-old-self would enjoy it. If not then it doesn’t qualify to be called a boys’ comic. Lately [One Piece] has a lot of adult readers but if I tried to adjust the story just because of that, it would lose the value of its existence. How about for music?

S: I don’t think I can feel what it’s like to be a kid. With my spirit as it is now, for me to sit down and try to make something that would thrill or move teenagers, that could only produce something fake; so it might be best to focus on what people closest [to our age] would want, but I definitely think there’s something there that can be understood regardless of age, people behind us that are much younger and even the opposite, older women and men, lately I’ve tried to picture them [when writing].

O: Songs are like, it’s like they move in ripples, no matter where they’re aimed they resonated everywhere, even children listen to you, right. If adults like something kids are bound to like it too. Maybe because part of them wants to be an adult.

Int: So the lyrics of ‘fanfare’ are written from an adult’s perspective.

S: What I’m saying through the song is, “To those of you who turned into an adult before you knew what was happening, let’s go look for that treasure you lost.” I wonder what that treasure is; for me I think it’s the feeling of heart-pounding excitement or the rush of a thrill.

As the interview came to a close, Oda inquired of Sakurai, who had just seen the completed film yesterday, “How was it?” Laughing, Sakurai replied, “The animation and colors were so vibrant. It had an incredible feeling of speed too, and as for the end, even though you said, ‘It’s not an emotional piece.’, it’s very stirring.” An apparently happy Oda replied, “I’m glad your favorite scene is followed immediately by Mr. Children.” From behind him it was impossible to see his expression but it’s possible that at that very moment, the smile on Oda’s face was no different from that of a fifteen year old boy.